Arts & Letters led me to an essay titled “Are Men Boring?”, where I expected to find some breakthrough study that proved the obvious, beyond a doubt.
Instead, it was the usual anecdotal findings of irritated wives and girlfriends whose male companions had nothing to talk about. Not “nothing” exactly, just nothing that they cared to share in conversation with a woman. I did like this quote from neuropsychiatrist Louann Brizendine:
“Connecting through talking”, she wrote in her book The Female Brain (2006), “activates the pleasure centres in a girl’s brain. We’re not talking about a small amount of pleasure. This is huge. It’s a major dopamine and oxytocin rush, which is the biggest, fattest neurological reward you can get outside of an orgasm.”
Yes, Louann, DUH, we love to talk. We are starved for conversation if we live with men. We will make conversation with practically anyone after being home all week with kids who only know how to yell, “BUT WHY? JUST TELL ME WHY!” when you don’t cave in to some demand. We crave conversation so much that we’ll talk to anybody who’s wiling to venture an opinion or relate some experience, however mundane.
Are Men Boring? Is the Pope a former Nazi? Of course men are boring, because they talk only to achieve a goal. The process is just too girly for them and makes them uncomfortable. Sometimes you can put two obsessive men together and they’ll talk about drill bits or blues singers or even sports, but it’s not talk as females experience talking. It’s a dry exchange of information, or else a competition.
Lately, I see there’s a breed of men who talk endlessly about their game with women, but it has the same quality of men talking about business strategy, only more paranoid.
Men must know deep down how boring they are. And I guess they’re proud to be indifferent to conversation. They’re not pussies, dammit!
One thing men don’t like even more than talking is a woman with armpit hair. Every so often, I like to seperate the men from the boys by lifting up my arms. I’m not trying to be obnoxious! I’m just letting them know who they’re dealing with.
AWESOME!!!!!!!
My armpits or the boring men, riz??
Ahhh, you just made me spit out my Diet Coke all over the place. I wasn’t expecting the ending of that post. You’re always good for a chuckle Sister.
http://www.shinylittlethings.com
Some men are boring. Many bore me to tears. That’s why I like women. But women who like knitting are also quite boring. Perhaps a followup post on boring women who knit and scrapbook is in order?
Scrapbooking women ARE boring! I met one once, and she was quite boring. Knitting could go either way. I will research women to find out which kind is the boringest.
but the down on your underarm is charming. and it’s not nearly as confronting as that scene in scary movie III when the japanese ghost lady in the mirror lifted up her arm and started combing her long, luxurious underarm hair.
Men are quite boring. I find that there is a ratio between the thickness of their necks and the quality of their conversation. If you can see veins bulging out of their necks. It’s not promising. I hate it when they call each other “playah” as encouragement.
i meant bodybuilding veins. not terminal illness veins. Terminal illness men are alright I guess.
xoxo haha so un -pc here.
HAhahahaha! Oh god, “playah”! Hahahahaha!
If I could get my armpit hair to grow longer, I’d have little dreadlocks. I like the sound of that movie, if it’s not too scary.
The pope crack is a loathsome intellectual hipster pose, I think. Of course, I could be wrong.
Could this line of thinking more properly be reframed as “women are not interested in an exchange of information when talking?” I could try and follow where this leads us, but it would be terribly linear thinking!
Karlub, I think you’re wrong on the pope crack. But it’s true that I may be a loathsome hipster of some sort.
Women are certainly interested in exchanging information! Where did you get those shoes? Would you like me to recommend a good hair product? Who do you go to for Botox?
But the flow of conversation is much more likely to include the abstract, the personal, the philosophical, and so on. There is a wider range, perhaps driven by a capacity for intimacy that men tend to lack.
Are you bothered by linear thinking? Which kind would you prefer? I will try to follow.
Really the most boring people are the ones who constantly need to be entertained. Women are extremely boring to most men. There is almost no real depth to their converstations. Yak, yak yak!
You would think that they talk to just–talk! Yikes!
No need to blame anybody for the situation though. Your partners don’t exist to entertain you anyway. Maybe if people could move beyond that expectation, it would make their lives a lot easier.
I’m a man and I strongly resemble your remarks.
Please don’t spread lies about the pope. Okay? Thanks.
Warren
Li: Yak, yak, yak!
Omri, Warren and Karlub, let’s throw away that sweater we were knitting for Rick.
I happen to love linear thinking, dear host!
What I was driving at was what has been observed by others here: Starting a conversation with many women is frustrating to men because we prefer goals to a conversation. Tell me something I don’t know. Or help me solve a problem. Or convince me something I think is wrong.
Thing is, my poor wife just wants me to listen when she’s complaining about something, for example, and all she gets from me are programs for action on how to fix it. She doesn’t want advice. She wants commiseration.
I admit to a marginally misogynistic suspicion, as well, that women rarely can admit error. At least not right away. This makes what I think of as “productive” conversation difficult. That part could be my own psychological quirk, though.
So if women think male conversation boring, we think female conversation pointless and vain. Different strokes, of course. Yin and yang, and all that. Wouldn’t change a thing.
‘godammit’ is spelt wrong; should be two ‘d’s.
Hahahaha! I’ll bet that was a ‘man’ giving me a spelling lesson!
fucking right, hon. 😉
But if you’re too fucking timid to use a real email address, I can’t allow you to post your wisdom here. (little winky face)
I find most people are boring, men and women alike. Little curiosity. Little knowledge and most of what they know is wrong.
As for men being boring: Keep in mind that you are wired up differently than men in a way that makes the boredom mutual. There are men and women who find each other interesting. But most do not.
As for talking toward some goal to solve a problem: That isn’t necessary for me. But I would a least like people to be good at joking around or in coming up with insights.
The boredom is mutual?! Oh dear.
I personally am very entertaining. And I find all of my male friends very entertaining. That’s why we’re friends.
Are you sure you’re not a bot? I’m concerned about your bordom.
Sister Wolf, Bots do not have feelings and I’m quite sure I feel bored.
Randall, let us end the bordom here and now. What would you like to discuss that isn’t boring?
Actually, have you tried chatting with the GOD bot? I had a delightful conversation with him, but he backed off when I asked Him if we were soul mates.
Did you see the follow up? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2008/06/12/ftwomen112.xml
I lived in an apartment with 3 women (1 gf + 2 roomies) and I have no idea where people get the gender stereotypes that are out there. Women definitely talk a lot, but I wouldn’t exactly call it conversation. Mostly it’s a sort of chatter, where what exactly is said isn’t as important as who is saying it and what their perspective is. All of which is far from “wit”. It works for parties maybe, but hardly interesting.
What surprised me about the experience is how “unsocial” women are, at least through a guys point of view. Almost without exception, when there were two of them they were talking about the third. And when people in general talk about other people they don’t say stuff like “I really agree with his relaxed attitude about cleaning”. “Wow I’m glad that she finally found someone who can make her scream loud enough that I can hear her in my room.” “You know, her little yappy dog is really starting to grow on me.” Not to much. Mostly what people end up doing is taking a little annoyance, focus attention on it and try to get people to “emote”, which means that when you are feeling bad you try and make everyone around feel bad also. As if it were contagious.
I started to realize how any large social group out there is all male, or at least the communication is in a male style. Men as a rule socially lubricate by suppressing it, not mentioning it and letting it go or channeling into some outlet behavior like binge drinking or punching. There are exceptions, and those men are either gay or what we call “pussys”. Man up.
Companies, teams, gangs, armies whatever; any large group of people working for a common goal is mostly men, because women have very bad group social skills. This is not what I expected to see.
There are clearly different styles of being social. Men are probably too conformist, and women spend far, far too much time in sabotage. I guess all you can really say is that you need a mix of both, otherwise it becomes sort of disgusting.
“Connecting through talking activates the pleasure centres in a girl’s brain …. It’s a major dopamine and oxytocin rush, which is the biggest, fattest neurological reward you can get outside of an orgasm.”
Conversation releases pleasure chemicals, second only to orgasm. But why stop there? Maximize your dopamine/oxytocin rush — have conversations during orgasm!
I believe that the pope was in the Hitler youth, although I think that registration was mandatory, so you can view that as you wish. I don’t personally think it matters, he’s the pope for Gods sake, I’m sure if he were a nazi that wouldn’t have been his first choice in profession.
Why fret, pope is just a guy doing the job of leading millions of misled cowards. We’ve got thousands of raligions / cults now. Most or all of them are just simply put WRONG.
Anyway.
Men can connect thru conversation too, they just dont indulge in the endless recapitation of stuff they have already absolved.
Well, let us get the pope out of the way. Ratty (as he is fondly known around here) was a Nazi and could have refused to join up, as many others did. If you like him, fine.
Back to men. Will, could the reason that men have been the ones to traditionally gather together in large groups be because women are at home with the kids? If armies and sports teams and gangs were compirsed of women, who would be caring for their children? It’s not that women are have poor ‘group social skills,’ they do group together when the kids are taken care of, eg PTA meetings.
Further, the large groups seem to be based around aggression, and we already know that’s a male trait produced by testosterone, correct?
As Dr. Simon Baren-Cohen postulates, ‘men systemize, women empathize.’
As for women’s “boring chatter,” well, that’s pretty subjective. I went out with a close female friend on Sunday, and we talked about the Supreme Court, drug addiction, cars, music, tattoos, crime, Mexico, and more.
Perhaps the female voice itself sounds like yak yak yak to the male ear.
Thanks for linking me to the follow-up!
Karl, I like your thinking.
Logic, are you being clever with malaprops or are you needing a dictionary?
The way men and women group together is pretty different. I’m not saying that women don’t form groups, I don’t know, like the PTA or the Lady’s Auxiliary or something like that, but those always seem to fragile and shifty, like if you were to come back in 5 years it would have a completely different member ship. I think men form way more long term, sustainable groups then women do, and furthermore they exist with a significantly less in-fighting. Some groups are based around physical agression — street gans, militias, armies, hunting groups, etc — but I think most are not. Most groups are not. Free masons, Knights of Columbus, “social clubs”, etc. I belong to a flying club (small plane pilots who collectively own 6 air craft) where there is exactly 1 women out of 70 members. That doesn’t prove anything, but I think that most groups aren’t “aggressive”.
And while we’re on the topic of gender stereotypes which I think are bullshit, thinking men are more aggressive is only true if you ignore what women do. I grant that men are more likely to punch someone directly, but women I think are more manipulative — more likely to launch a phycological rather than physical attack. “sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me” is clearly false, as I’m sure many a therapist can attest. They both are bad, and in some situations either can be much worse than the other.
But whatever… the biggest problem with that idea to me is that the underlying idea is that one sex has an upper hand over the other, and somehow that needs to be externally corrected. Which is bullshit; individual exceptions aside how could any relationship possibly work if they weren’t equally matched — where the strength of one is the weakness of the other, etc? I think that both the sexes are optimized for different things, and that there are pretty big differences especially with socialization, but really they meant to work together.
And totally agree with the idea that it’s all subjective. Though in the apartment we named what from my perspective was “women’s boring chatter” as “nattering on”. It wasn’t pejorative. Just you know, no for me.
(As an aside, there are no less than 3 italian “social clubs” on my block. I live in brooklyn. I have no idea what its about other than fat men sitting around smoking cigars keeping an eye out on the neighborhood. Needless to say, there are no women members. Maybe it’s one of those things where the men are off smoking cigars and drinking brandy while the women are off some place secretly running the world… I don’t know. I really don’t think that they do anything other than hang out in their club house, but you never know.)
Will, I agree that the gender differences make for complimentary traits that make sense for men and women to become couples.
Our brains are wired differently, so it’s not resorting to stereotypes. Women are certainly more ‘manipulative’ in their strategies simply because they have less physical power. Any group that is dominated by another will have to develop other strategies. If you can’t use your muscles, you must learn to use language to give you an edge.
I’m interested in the male drive to join groups based around a similar interest (cars or planes) or just to socialize. Could it be that men require the structure of a group in order to feel allowed to talk and bond with other men?
Whereas women talk and bond more freely, without the fear of seeming gay or weak.
American women are cunts. I know because I used the same rationale as the “men are boring” proposition.
Hairy, skanky ugly women are the worst kind of cunt.
Peter, this is a valuable insight, thank you. I will make a note of your IP details.
I have armpit hair and it was during an interesting conversation, the first time I talked about it with my now-boyfriend
I just thought, as long as we’re mindlessly slagging half of humanity, why not share the love all around?
> Could it be that men require the structure of a group in order to feel allowed to talk and bond with other men?
That’s such a weird statement. “Allowed to”? Maybe if it was more like “interested in”, as in, “i am not interested in talking about how jacked madonna’s arms are — in fact, I don’t want to have an opinion about this — unless it’s really about what are the best steroids to use, in which case I totally prefer blah blah blah” or whatever.
But you are supposing that talking is always something positive, that secretly people would want to do but have to sublimate their desires because it doesn’t fit societies norms. Replacing “allowed to talk and bond” with, say, “looking at women’s breasts” I would agree that there’s a basic, biological drive there, but with “feeling connected”… not so much.
Meh, your sexism is boring. Face it, you think the way you do because you surround yourself with people that think the way you do. You never break outside of your comfort zone. Its just easier that way. Go grab some beers with some “Playas:” you’ll find that if you listen really hard, just like you, they are incredibly boring people because they are full of preconceived notions and closed-mindedness. Life is way way too short to surround yourself with the same dialog over and over, and this old hacked up repackaged horsecrap is as tired as saying all women “crack under pressure in the workplace” or “black people are dumber than whitey.” But to you and your friends, I’m sure this is a fascinating topic. I would much rather learn about knitting: at least my unfamiliarity with it would lend some amount of interest.
I just love hairy armpits on women. I don’t even know why. I guess because it is, or is just like, pubic hair, so it’s like getting an upskirt shot with no underwear. I find the trend of bald pussies, well, not disturbing really, just… boring I guess. Actually, if it’s not hairy, it shouldn’t even get to be called a pussy, should it? What’s gross is stubbly cunts. I love the word cunt. It amuses me when some women go insane hearing it in any context.
I find that generally, I seem to prefer the company of women to that of men. I’m not gay. Google Cherry comics; that’s me. And I have heard from women, more than once, that workplaces with all or mostly women are, or at least tend to be horrible snakepits. I don’t know how that fits into this discussion of armpit hair & conversation, but uhh…
Your picture really turns me on. I’m serious. Oh, don’t get excited, I’m an old geezer. Besides, I’m not even available, well, unless it was like a threesome or something. Oh, wait, we don’t do that shit anymore, being as how we’re all old & ugly & don’t live in California anymore.
I love hairy armpits on women. It is so hard to meet a girl that grows out her armpit hair.
Volume of conversation and interesting conversation are two different things.
Women talk more, men talk less. Are men ‘boring’?
Sister Wolf
“As for women’s “boring chatter,” well, that’s pretty subjective.”
And the claim that men are boring isn’t?
Perhaps a better title would be ‘are men boring to women in conversation?’ Equally, ‘are women boring to men in conversation?’ Those titles being given, there could arise an interesting, productive conversation about differences in communication, and how to communicate more effectively with the other gender (be the ‘other’ men or women). Unfortunately the original article, this response, and the linked response in the Telegraph are all very narrow minded examples, typical of 1960s/70s viewpoints (either ‘traditional’ or feminist) on gender. Not very productive at all. How far we haven’t come since “a woman’s place is in the home” and “burn your bras”, eh?
Many men are boring because they prattle on ad nauseum about ‘things’, computers, cars, etc., to prove how much they know. Many women are boring because they prattle on about mundane daily stuff, such as when they took a shower, what their husband said, blah, blah, blah. Very few people I’ve met have any concept about taking turns in a conversation and keeping responses at a reasonable length. Most, both men and women, once they have the ‘floor’, are intoxicated by it and just keep on talking, oblivious to the glassy eyes of the listener.
I know this topic is old but…
Why is it always about the man? Do women never see themselves the same way? And most women’s rants tell me they aren’t happy with their tall, dark and handsome guy who they use to stereotype every single man. or maybe they aren’t happy with themselves. who knows?
I don’t talk about drillbits, football, Ford trucks and the things that most women complain about as I’m sure all women don’t bore men about their dresses, makeup, shopping and how their man won’t conform to their ways. My brother has a wife like that. It is always about the man does this and that. nitpick about all kinds of stuff and never really see herself as a nagging, self centered woman. me, me, me…
Give most men the benefit of the doubt because all men aren’t the same just as all women aren’t.
No, they’re not boring BECAUSE they don’t talk! They’re boring because they think about boring crap like electrical wiring. Talking IS boring. I hate talking, personally. I’d rather be doing something 🙂
That’s funny how you say men are boring which is true, and yet you get some humor or pride when talking about and showing body hair, men do that too over and over again so are you just the same clone, the fact your body can grow hair which you and men find funny or tough- it’s not. It’s a natural bodily function that people who are forever 15, like farts, male or female, are boring about. It’s not offensive, just so common it’s banal. Bringing up body hair just means you can’t bring anything interesting or new to the table. Being boring means you talk about the same things over and over again while everyone else does the same. Putting your hands behind your head with some boastful smirk on your face makes you look just as stupid as a man who does it, get over yourself.
‘word’: what you said just made absolutely no sense, stupid dick, you have the tone of somebody who wants to sound thoughtful and intelligent but really you have nothing.
I’m sorry but reading your comment really really pissed me off
Actually your hairy armpits excite me, they are sexy!
mills – “word” is an idiot.
Tom – YES, exactly, thank you.
uh huh wimp
I am a woman who can not stand talking to women. Social life, how they’re doing, whatever their peer group cares about – sounds fucking tedious. I like to talk to men because they actually talk ABOUT things instead of making noise to be herd animals.
I find herdishness in humans repulsive enough in males, the fact that women want to pretend it’s a virtue is vomit-inducing.
I consider myself a man and I love to see a woman with armpit hair.