It’s taken me a long time to gather my courage to address the Tavi Problem. As her celebrity increases, I keep wondering why nobody brings up the subject of autism.
Aspergers Syndrome is a condition on the autistic spectrum, often characterized by a high IQ and an intense preoccupation with a specialized field of interest. In children, Aspergers can be especially endearing. A young person animated by a passion for learning, even if it’s about vacuum cleaners, is a pleasure to be around. As the mom of a kid who attends a special needs school, I’ve come to recognize signs of Aspergers from a mile off, and I’ve come to appreciate the quirky brainy kids that my son hangs out with.
Tavi strikes me as a kid with Aspergers whose obsession dovetails perfectly with the zeitgeist, i.e. the burgeoning influence of bloggers and the fashion industry’s desperation to appear ‘fresh’ and appeal to new markets. Her extraordinary knowledge of fashion is mind boggling and she clearly has a prodigious memory for details. Gregory Evans has a similar understanding of vacuum cleaners, a gift that has earned him some notoriety but unfortunately not the same outpouring of love that Tavi has received.
Here is what Rodarte sister Kate Mulleavy says of Tavi: “When spending time with Tavi, I am always astonished by her observations. Tavi is a writer in every sense. Her way of interacting with the world comes from a sensitivity and madness that belongs to poets and bank robbers.”
My goodness! Poets and bank robbers?! I worry that Tavi is the Flavor of the Month, and that when the fashion world grows tired of her it will be a difficult transition. I hope her parents know what they’re doing.
My purpose in this discussion is not to diminish Tavi’s achievement but to suggest that using the term Aspergers Syndrome or even autism would help to dispel the notion that those on the spectrum are retarded or stupid. It would encourage other gifted kids to pursue their interests, full steam ahead.
I’m prepared to be scolded for daring to label everyone’s little darling, who is only thirteen. But it’s a label I use with affection and admiration. I’d like to see more kids and adults identify themselves as being on the spectrum. I’d like to see the end of the stigma that persists. As for the Rodarte sisters, I’m pretty sure they have Aspergers too.
*hand clap*
I’m vaguely familiar with Aspergers, but given the symptoms you listed, I can’t say that I’d be surprised if she had it. I do get the feeling that the novelty of all of this will soon wear off and I hope she’s able to deal with it (and I fully believe that she will).
You make it hard to hate here, and I kind of feel bad for feeling irritated by all the hype she is getting, and thinking she has a terrible haircut;
I have never gotten the Tavi thing, yet I cant help checking her blog. I can see that she is very smart, but she must be more infectious in person. I’m sure she is really sweet.
It will be sad for her when the novelty wears off, but I’m certain she will be fine.
Serial killers have more kudos than internet ‘celebrities’!
Interesting observations over on The Cut including this one…
“You look at her video, and the writing doesn’t sync up with the way she talks about fashion. When I watched that video it smacked of this ethereal vagueness – this vacantlike quality where it was like everyone was on Vicodin. Like everyone was uncomfortably dumb except for me.” Anne Slowey, Elle
http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2009/12/tavi_the_13-year-old_fashion_b.html
I think I might be jealous of how comfortable she is with her “uncool” self. At 12-13 I was so defensive of anything I liked, wore, or done that might be considered lame or odd that I pretended not to like many of the things I actually did.
Then again, things that are uncool, odd, or unique seem to be the “in thing” right now so maybe it’s easier for her to have the confidence to express herself at such a young age because having your own style is just as cool, if not cooler then only wearing labels and popular things.
Oh well at least I’m jealous of interesting Tavi, and not airhead Jane.
I love her self made quality. The video is edited by adults and adults like us have made her a news, cos we are like news vampires. There are a couple of options about what she will become, I’m sure she won’t become a bunny or a turtle. At this point, it looks we need her more than she needs us, she would be as happy in her backgarden if she didn’t have a chance (again, given by us) to know better.
It hard to make any harsh judgments of somebody who is still pure and not a decadent fashion consumer/editor. I have so much less doubts in her motives, that I have in ours. If she grows up to be a super cunt, I won’t blame her, but for now, I’m happy to see a girl lucky enough to have some of her dreams come true. I wish I had the Aspergers, too.
As a child psychologist I find it extremely offensive when people label childeren without an extensive anamnesis and careful examination, let alone without ever meeting them in person. It’s just ignorant and stigmatizing.
Natasja – You’re the one who is “stigmatizing!” Why the stigma??? Some of the most brilliant people I know have Aspergers. I am a wrod class expert on the subjext, having read nearly everything published about it since 1996. Call me whatever you want, but I am far from ignorant.
Sister Wolf you’ve done well to highlight the spectrum and articulate the reasons why stigma has to end. I was recently diagnosed as dyslexic and that still has stigma attached to it but it was a relief to me to understand my way of thinking and inability to retain sometimes very simple things. For my dyslexia plays havoc with my thought process and sometimes I think really bonkers things which amuse me so much but fall flat with others.
When all cylinders are firing in sync I’m extremely creative and talented but when I get stuck I get frustrated but now I don’t because since diagnosis I’ve been given some aids for memory and also now just chill about it. Even my writing is improving – I don’t understand grammar even though I try it is an anathema to me in respect of logic but I’m relearning it slowly.
I think Natasja like most psychologists tend to prefer the diagnosis process and love sticking people in boxes hence the word stigma. Before it just applied to people who needed to be burned at the stake or rid of evil – oh that would be the ignorant medieval times.
I think you are right Tavi does exhibit many aspects of Aspergers and could well be on the spectrum. My dyslexia is very mild for which I’m grateful and hence so long to really discover it and understand it.
Closer examinations happen when someone perceptive identifies the clue and acts.
I’m kind of sick of agreeing with Sister Wolf and look forward to the time when I can say ‘Bollocks!’ in a satisfying sort of way. But having a nephew with Asperger’s I absolutely see what you mean.
Talk to my nephew on any of the things that he’s passionately interested in and he fairly lights up. He’s unusual, sure, and I guess unless you’re used to him maybe seems a bit odd. But – Natasja – where’s the stigma? I find it really frustating that behaviour on the Autistic spectrum gets pathologised as if it’s something that needs curing.
Either way, I earnestly hope she gets a sense of self-worth and achievement from things other than her blog; because when that star inevitably fades, she’s gonna need to shine elsewhere.
Asperger’s is only a problem if it interferes with a person’s normal functioning. If being wacky, motormouthed, fash obsessed, and so on, is normal for Tavi,and she has never had treatment or diagnosis for Asperger’s, then she’s never suffered from it or really experienced the understanding of having it. These diagnoses are “way existential” in their shaping of the identity.
The kids of her generation almost all seem autistic compared to boomers or gen x or y. She grew up with wikipedia, style.com, and youtube at her fingertips. Gen Z are pop culture encyclopedias. It’s no longer so uncool or rare to be like Tavi.
It’d be great for autistic kids to have someone like Tavi as a positive icon, but calling her so makes no more sense than speculating that Shakespeare was bipolar just so somebody can write a book called “Touched with Fire” that touts mental illness as a lynchpin of creativity. If Tavi’s autistic and doesn’t know it, maybe that makes her indulged or enabled, but it’s too soon to tell. The Rodarte/Target collabo does absolutely suck, though.
I agree with the comment that most psychologists are most comfortable with applying cut and dried diagnostic tools and neatly shafting individuals into little boxes. Some psyches are marvelous: compassionate, intelligent and erudite. Most are not.
GIM, You have a good heart. The issue is not how Smart/Cool/Cute/Unconventional/Flavour of the Month Tavi is, or is not. It is that she is received and treated decently. Always. Regardless. Aspergers or otherwise. After all, a psyche probably made the diagnosis. There is room for error!
In Australia, it is surprisingly easy to have a child labelled with “aspergers spectrum disorder” – it is lucrative to the profession and parents alike, as much government funding is provided.
Maybe Tavi does know that she has Asperger’s and doesn’t mention it because she’s more interested in talking about clothes??
I don’t know if it is such a good idea to publicly make this type of statement, especially as layman. Even as a professional you’d be walking on very thin ice.
This post is beautifully written. If it gets emailed all over the place, maybe the stigma of Aspergers will disappear. The fashion world is clearly smitten with her, and if it is due to Aspergers, I don’t think that it would make a difference in their adoration. But if she does have it, it can help to destigmatize the condition. Sort of like Temple Grandin, who is an autistic veterinarian, and has accomplished much despite her condition. And, growing up in New York City, I remember the first time my mom took me to Soho as a teenager, to go to the galleries. I saw women dressed all in black with big clumpy shoes, and I felt “at home” in that esthetic. Sort of like how Tavi feels about Comme des Garcons. The only difference is that she is a child of the internet and could learn all she could at the click of a mouse. I wish that I had had that when I was a kid!
Tavi? I’m so far out of the loop, I have no idea who she is.
I’m no expert, but isn’t a common indicator of Aspergers, a lack of social skills or awareness?
Tavi seems to have a lot of friends and not much trouble interacting with others… more so than I had at that age.
I think people are missing the point here. Beautifully written or not (The Tavi “Problem”???), it is inappropriate to assume something of this nature, let alone publicly, without even knowing the person!!! Too, the fashion world, as well as hollywood, etc. adores n-o-o-n-e – but that’s another subject.
Hildy, that’s what people do all the time, they categorize, organize, intellectualize, look for patterns, associate those patters with other familiar patterns, and make hypothesis, theory, law, etc (sp?). Now, where I work I categorize everyone on some slide, scale, syndrome, (always the employees and not the clients — inside joke but most employees are like Natasja) etc. And besides without free speech we would only learn what “they” want us to learn and our minds would be less stimulated. You go Sister Wolf, make us use a neuron or two!
Sister Wolf, does reading everything there is to know about driving a car make someone a good driver? Besides, mentioning your special needs son and using the words affection and admiration in relation to developmental psychopathology is a little Palinesque in my opinion.
I love catching up with Tavi on her blog. Tavi is as Tavi does. Simple. Whether she has Aspergers or not, I dont really care, I just wish I thought of wearing a box on my head and some outrageously clashing garments at the age of 13 too. Oh no, wait… I did that when I was 8 – no designers fell head over heels for me then though.
Tez- I think you mean autism, not Aspergers.
Also, I hope all of you realize why the mainstream media is going gaga for Tavi, Rumi, Jane, Susie, Camille, etc (I read a lot of blogs). Because there is money to be made! It sells issues. Why do you think they have also created their own blogs? Read this post in New York Magazine’s “The Cut”
http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2009/12/tavi_the_13-year-old_fashion_b.html.
Money is always at the root of these things. Why do you think that designers gift bloggers with free merch all the time? Because if they post about how much they love the item, it causes people to buy it. I know for myself, I used to wait for the next month’s issue to come out, of Vogue, Bazaar, Allure, Elle, etc. Now I just glance at them. And it’s because i am getting most of my fashion news on a daily from the web. And the magazine people know that. The best way for them to stay fresh and in touch with what’s happening is to hook up with a blogger who has tons of readers. I hope that I live long enough to see Tavi grow up, (I have a daughter older than her) so I can see what becomes of her. Stylist?, editor?, designer? I kind of wish that I had the internet when I was a kid, maybe I would have taken a different path.
I think you do state the obvious here Andrea – of course bloggers get used for money purposes, thats why people are worried about tavi if and when she ends up on the scrapheap – will she be able to handle it?
oh sister wolf, you could be such an excellent role-model to all them on the megalomania spectrum. please identify yourself, please put a label on your condition, the world is waiting for that moment to happen.
Deni, i agree! Each and every person should be able to voice his or her own opinion. However, claiming something like this and then publicly spreading it around is nothing other than mobbing.
Unfortunately, people do pigeonhole others mostly because they are afraid of something unknown to them. A man in a flowered shirt? He must be gay. What a wonderful world we live in!
I have never checked out Tavi’s blog, and was only vaguely aware of her. After splurting out my two pence worth here, I shall have a look.
Most people I know have some form of Asperger’s I reckon. Because of my job and the fact my husband has run a cult record label since 92/93 does mean my social circle is mostly made up of artists, musicians and bookworms. There is a thread of Asperger’s in us all.
I do not see this as a problem or a hindrance, just a fact of the century I am living in. Having non verbal communication skills in a world dominated by emotional alienation and technological overload was bound to happen. Some of my most loved friend’s have real problems conversing with people in the world of banks, supermarkets and pubs, but give them a drum machine and a fellow braindancer and the difference is substantial.
Maybe I am just talking absolute shizer; Starship Enterprise engage of the brain does tend to make me waffle in a discombobulated way.
So sorry to anybody who actually made it to the end of my mini essay on a subject I only know about through my instinct, and not actually any scientific facts
I still don’t get why is everybody so worried about Tavi ending on a scrapheap or being destroyed by fashion monsters? Can’t your imagination think of a success story? She doesn’t aim for fame, so no fame can’t hurt her. People survived more life threatening catastrophes than falling out of headlines, she’ll live. If everybody is so worried, then lets make sure she’s safe and accepted, that is what we CAN control. Let her write, read it or not. What grumpy fashion editors plot, blah, is their frustration and their paid day-job and bloggers are stealing the throne. That nymag article is written by a cunning professional writer and is so full of crap, it stinks.
SW, it is a good issue to talk about, but it’s hard to keep the focus on it. We all have Asperger’s, looks like…
She might just be a really smart, aware kid.
When I was little, I used to get pulled out of class all the time to take those silly IQ tests with the two other smart kids.
I think it was the bizarre stories I wrote about my dreamworld. Maybe all the other kids were just really dumb.
Ha!
Alicia – We will use the word “characteristics” rather than symptoms, since people are so touchy (ie fearful) about Aspergers, evidently. xo
arline – She probably is very sweet, but I’m not a fan of the haircut either.
Imelda Matt – Anne Slowey is going to suffer a shit storm of abuse for voicing this opinion. How dare she reject received wisdom??
Alana – The teenagers I know who have Aspergers are absolutely comfortable with who they are…they don’t seem to worry AT ALL about how they are perceived.
dust – You are already original and creative, whether or not you have Aspergers!
Make Do – Ah, dyslexia. I always love the way you express yourself. Me, is have dyspraxia. (I bump into things)
sarah.p – YES, the “Cure Autism Now!” ads are very offensive to me and my kid. But of course, when it comes to the severely autistic who cannot communicate and/or self-harms, that must be terribly distressing.
Kate – Your first sentence = Bingo! Exactly. Some adults are relieved when they learn about AS, though. It helps them to understand why some things are difficult for them, etc.
Denise – Yep, the term is probably being applied too loosely, but the real problem with that is when your kid actually DOES have this condition and your relatives just roll their eyes and go, sure (NOT!) I’ve seen this happen all too often.
annemarie – Could be!
hildy – Thin ice???? How so?
andrea – I was thinking about Temple Grandin too, while reading these comments.
Jill – That’s why I love you. That and your voice. And boobs.
Tez – I’m glad you brought this up. While lots of people with AS have social deficits, others – perhaps those with early intervention?- are extremely social and even much more adept then average. My own kid is totally poised and confident socially and charms the pants off of everyone, especially adults. Well, maybe not “pants” but you get the picture. Not ALL the common traits apply to every person.
hildy – The “problem” refers to MY PROBLEM with writing about the subject.
Deni – Free speech rules! Except with Mrs. Palin. xo
Natasja – Oh get a grip. my kid is a fucking genius (IQ) highly gifted and dauntingly talented at music, computer programming, cooking, writing, etc etc. I am not using the terms affection and admiration condescendingly. I am sincere. While I don’t know much about Downs, I’ve heard that these kids are often extremely affectionate and sunny. Is it wrong to see something else besides pathology??
Hilda – Let’s see, my conditions? Lifelong depression (yay for effexor!) fibromyalgia (a pretend disease) body image Issues, dry brittle hair, chronic unemployment, AND I have a fucking hammer toe. Now, let’s hear about you!
hildy – “”Something like THIS” and “mobbing” is all coming from you. Sorry you feel this way. Plus, gay is okay, remember???
Braindance – A great mini-essay! yes to everything you said.
dust – Lots of us have Asperger traits, that’s for sure. Obsessiveness and sensory sensitivity, to name two.
Iron Chic – I was a smart kid too, but not comfortable with feeling different. The other kids were kind of dumb…and mean too.
I don’t believe you can make that assumption as you haven’t met her.
I am the same age and my interests are very similar, I am definitely not autistic!
And who cares if she is? She’s happy, social and doing what she loves!
anonymous – Well, I make assumptions. In this cae, it seems kind if glaringly obvious. But like you, I don’t care “what she is.” I’m just making an observation. And I want everyone to be happy. Except for Mrs. Palin.
Spoiler alert: after the revision of the DSM-IV-TR (expected 2012) Asperger doesn’t exist anymore. In a few years it will be looked upon like we look upon diagnosed hysteria in women from a century ago. But I’m sure you knew that, with the reading and all.
Note to Natasja @ 12:47 pm- It is only 2009, so Aspergers still exists. Why are you so snarky? And I am a Registered Nurse (boarded in 1979)with a background in psych. Why do you look to discredit SW? All she is trying to do is help take away the stigma of having this type of condition. And if someone who is the darling of the fashion elite has it, it’s better for ALL of the people who have it, (or act that way, if there will be no label for it, in 2012). It gives all of us a greater understanding of that person.
Natasja – Of course I knew it. And of course YOU know of a recent study that found differences between autistic and AS brains in the gray matter, which may throw a wrench into that section of the DSM-IV-TR (which as you say is not yet written in stone, not to mention galleys.) Don’t bother trying to one-up me, Natasja. It won’t happen.
andrea – Natasja feels threatened, andrea.
Asperger’s? Isn’t that supposed to interfere with a kid’s abilities to interact with other people (forgive me if I’m wrong, Sister!) and Tavi doesn’t seem to have issues with that- she mentions having friends, after all, and if she really did have issues with that I hardly think her parents would have let her go to Fashion Week and holiday parties. Both events are the kind that involve meeting lots of people, after all.
I honestly think it’s irritating that people don’t seem to believe that someone so young can have a brain or write in a way that doesn’t involve “ZOMG!!! Twilight!!!” etc etc. I’m almost twice Tavi’s age but still remember what it felt like to be condescended to…not nice. And I’m rather disgusted with NYMAG now- at least you are open about detesting blogs for whatever reason*, Amy Odell is just nasty and pathetic for using her position to attack the bloggers behind them in the name of “fashion journalism”.
I guess the real thing for which I envy Tavi is the fact that she’s in a position to be comfortable with her own geeky self, with all the technology to enable it (and all the older fashion bloggers- like Susie, Fashion Robot and co.- to inspire her to start her own blog). Like Sister, I grew up a bit of a weirdo among queen bee bullies- it wasn’t till I was some way into my teens that I started going online regularly, and it took years for me to believe that anyone would be interested in anything I had to say. And even though people can express concerns about a teenager’s online activity, I do remember that for me, the net was one way to find people like me (in 1999, even!) and remind myself that I wasn’t totally alone in my freakiness. If it helps another kid sidestep those years (even if I do go green hearing that she MET Rei Kawakubo- my personal heroine! Who hardly ever gives interviews!), I’m all for Team Tavi.
On a side note: I think her personal style can be really cute sometimes. Being picturesquely diminutive might help, but at least she dresses the way she likes to and has the confidence to do so- good for her, even if other people happen not to like it.
*even if I disagree with you
Sorry for the epic (used in non-fashion-blogger sense!) length of that last comment, Sister!
Dru – No problem with the epic-ness. I know what you mean about super-smart kids. I personally was really smart and had an advanced vocabulary, and I was very precocious. I was unbearably pretentious, too! I remember carrying around “Intimacy” by Sartre (at 13), making sure that everyone noticed! Hahaha!
Aspergers often involves a different quality of intelligence..more obsessive, with an encyclopedic store of information of the subject of interest. Fashion, clothes dryers, swords, dinosaurs, computers, old records, whatever.
Sister- you were brave! In my middle school, a book with a title like that would probably have been snatched away from you and tossed in the loo…
I do remember really hating comments on my intelligence though, mainly because people were surprised at my old-lady vocabulary (result of spending more time with 19th-century novels than with admittedly moronic peers) + the fact of my often less-than-stellar grades. I did go into quizzing really young though- my brain seems to have a wildfire attraction to random bits of information, and none at all to useful stuff.
Psychological labels are so wrong. We are all something or other. I am more uncomfortable with what seems to be the habit of picking on kids. We’re old and should know better than that. Aren’t we all kinda obsessed with fashion ?
Erika- If anyone’s doing any picking on here, it isn’t SW (at least that’s not how this post comes across to me)- it’s the folks over at NYMag, who seem to like a bit of Mean-Girling on certain bloggers. And they’ve been doing it for a while now.
Ah,Erika, if this only had to do something with fashion…
Erika – I pick on everybody. Kids with blogs aren’t sacrosanct. Re labels, I have this debate with my sister all the time! She doesn’t like to recall our bi-polar mom as bi-polar. People are so much more than a label, but the label may still be appropriate.
SW – so you have a hammer toe?! I’m sorry but I don’t think I can love you any more. Fuck this! I thought there would be another flawless person in the world besides me. Obviously not! Sister who?
Juri – WAIT, I can have it fixed! Juri? Juri?
I’ve got to say, I’m sorry, but I disagree with you, Sister Wolf. Even if Tavi is somewhere on the autism spectrum, she’s under no obligation to be a poster child for it if she/her parents don’t want her to. And there are plenty of good reasons not to want to, starting with the fact that it would be an open invitation to every crackpot on the Interwebs to bombard her with helpful suggestions and judgemental comments about how she must have been vaccinated/should eat a gluten-free diet/shouldn’t clean with common household chemicals.
She writes about fashion. Her health and mental conditions are totally her business. I admit, the idea that a 13-year-old girl who looks like she dresses out of a theatre tickle trunk is the hottest style guru of the moment is completely abhorrent to me, even more so than knowing that most of the fash mags are browsing the skinny teens on Lookbook for their trend-spotting. But trying to armchair-diagnose her with autism, whether it’s with affection and admiration or not, is kinda beyond the pale.
Bad Kate – Well, you’re the bad Kate, so I don’t really care what you think. However! I didn’t say she has an obligation to do anything. I said I would like it if bla bla bla. And I will continue to armchair diagnose whenever I feel like it.
p.s. The moms I know all HATE Jenny McCarthy, who actually blocks them from her twitter account. We consider her a dangerous idiot.
have you read her about me:
Tiny 13 year old dork that sits inside all day wearing awkward jackets and pretty hats. Scatters black petals on Rei Kawakubo’s doorsteps and serenades her in rap. I have no where near 4 million readers. Rather cynical and cute as a drained rat. In a sewer. Farting. And spitting out guts.
can you be funny and self aware with Asperger’s ? I’m just asking.I don’t know.
Nicole – the answer to your question is: yes, very much so.
Tavi reminds me of the young girl played by Saiorse, in Atonement. She’s brilliant and compelling with a bit of eccentric thrown in.