No one is antisemitic if you ask them. Not at all!
Certainly not John Galliano, even though you can hear him admiring Hitler in this video. Not Charlie Sheen and not Mel Gibson. These guys were just drunk or stoned and plus, some of their best friends are Jews.
Here is my feeling: Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic. It is frustrating to argue this point. I tried in another post, when a film reviewer praised an actress for not “trying to mask her Jewishness.” Everyone claimed to be bewildered by the premise that this is clearly antisemitic.
If you tell me about your Jewish friends, you are antisemitic, to my ears. The fact that you distinguish some people as Jews – unless they are orthodox Jews whose lifestyle is defined by religion – then you have a problem.
Me, I’m an atheist but I’m a Jew because my parents and their parents were Jews. The world will always define me as different because the world is nuts. Why the world is nuts about Jews, I don’t know. I’ve been reading about it but I’m not a historian. I don’t need to be a historian to know that most of the world hates Jews.
That’s their problem, though, I’m not going to boycott Galliano because he’s antisemitic. I love his designs and I don’t care about his personal problems. Hating Jews is like hating blacks but more insidious: It’s just ignorance and the need to feel superior. It’s stupid, but evidently we can’t cure stupidity.
Last night I watched a great movie called “The Believer” which caused such an uproar when it was previewed to Jewish leaders that it was released under the radar and disappeared quickly. It’s the true story of a self-hating Jewish student in New York who becomes a neo-Nazi.
Ryan Gosling is the anti-hero. His speech to a group of would-be fascists is so maniacal that it has stayed with me over the years. Each time I see the movie and hear the speech, I laugh out loud at its audacity and absurdity – and because its true. Here it is, copied from the script:
DANNY
How many of you think of yourselves
as anti-Semites?
(All the hands go up.)
Good. Actually, the term is a bit
imprecise since technically Jews are
only one of the Semitic peoples....
In fact, Arabs are Semites, as are
the Eritreans, the Ethiopians, and so
on.... But for our purposes an anti-
Semite is someone who hates or is
against Jews.... Now, why do we hate
them?
He looks around. The room is silent.
DANNY
Let me put it another way. Do we hate
them because they push their way in
where they don't belong? Or because
they're clannish and keep to themselves?
Murmurs of "Yeah. Both." But some are confused by this.
DANNY
...Because they're tight with money,
or because they flash it around?
Because they're Bolsheviks or because
they're capitalists? Because they
have the highest IQs, or because they
have the most active sex lives?
The audience, confused...
DANNY
Do you want to know the real reason
we hate them?...
DANNY
...Because we hate them.
(as people exchange
puzzled looks)
Because they exist. Because it is an
axiom of civilization that just as
man longs for woman, loves his
children and fears death, he hates
the Jews.
(smiles)
There is no reason. If there were,
some smart-ass kike would give us an
argument, try to prove we were wrong.
And of course that would only make us
hate them more. In fact we have all
the reasons we need in three simple
letters: J-E-W. Jew. Say it a million
times. It is the only word that never
loses its meaning: Jew Jew Jew Jew
Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew....
Hahahaha. Love the title. Can we have one that goes “Muslims-muslims-muslims!” for all my Jewish friends?
^I second that.
I grew up in a town that was almost 100% Italian, and my school was mostly comprised of people whose parents, like mine, came straight off the boat onto Ellis Island. I never met anyone Jewish until I went to college. My roommate and all her friends were from Miami and had all gone to a private Jewish high school together. We became fast friends and remain close to this day. I don’t refer to them as my Jewish friends; I refer to them as my college friends, and that is the only distinction between them and anyone else I call a friend.
Charlie Sheen (who I deplore for reasons beyond this) did bring up an interesting point, though. His gaffe was that he referred to his show’s producer by his largely unknown Jewish name in an angry rant. But if someone refers to Charlie as Carlos Estevez (his largely unknown given name), does that make them anti-Latino?
You are are such a mensch! Bubbelah! I love you!!!!
a fellow (athiest) Jewesssss
I’m afraid I don’t know what you mean by “Hating Jews is like hating blacks but more insidious: It’s just ignorance and the need to feel superior.” Seems like hating anyone on the basis of any element of their intrinsic nature — race, religion, parentage, country of origin, etc. — is an insidious result of ignorance or insecurity.
Sheri beat me to it. Please explain this statement: “Hating Jews is like hating blacks but more insidious: It’s just ignorance and the need to feel superior.”
I’m going to join the bandwagon asking you to explain the ‘more insidious’ bit, Sister.
To the best of my knowledge, there are no Jewish people or black people where I live, so I have no experience of either set of prejudices apart from reading about them. What exactly is it about anti-Semitism that makes it that way?
And i don’t get this, “Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic,” because this post does exactly that.
ALTHOUGH I’ve always liked being able to claim my underdog status because it’s better than having to having to admit membership of the imperialist motherfuckership (Britain, America), at the same time, I know it’s totally hypocritical because claiming underdog status is as part of the problem. It’s just the other side of the racist coin.
All identity politics is rubbish. Next!
Ugh, that video of Galliano is AWFUL.
Prejudice is ugly no matter what form it takes.
… What form? I’m sorry, fried brain. It’s ugly no matter who it’s aimed toward. Prejudice SUX, you guys.
“Here is my feeling: Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic. It is frustrating to argue this point.”
I wanted to understand a bit more about the history behind the Israeli state, as a means to understand the current climate in the middle east. For this reason, I read Golda Meir’s autobiography, and to be honest, it frustrated me how she frequently and continuously differentiated between the American people and the American Jewish people…even when it was a positive reference or the groups should have been addressed as a collective.
Upon finishing the book, I felt like there were two distinct groups in the US: Americans and the American Jews. I understand the need to establish a unique identity, but I felt the language of her autobiography was, to an extent, counter-productive. Ironically, by your definition above this behavior would be antisemitic…
Personally, I feel like repeatedly pointing out differences (e.g. religion) is unnecessary and gratuitous, but we need to develop ways of talking about them at appropriate times in a way that is not demeaning or exclusionary.
I’m glad I decided to check here before sending you the Galliano video. I wanted to believe so badly that it was all a misunderstanding. Anyone who dresses that way her no right making fun of any group. But what terrible things he said. He ought to be ashamed. As a minority, I have no patience for hatred of any group. Because the hater might be cool with black people but you know at one point, they probably weren’t. But then my other pet peeve, one of my ex boyfriends used to throw around “antisemitic” like some black people throw around “racism”. I don’t like when people use those terms and words without true warrant. It’s like the little boy who cried “wolf”.
That video is shocking!
“Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic.”
You had me right there Sister. Succinct as always.
I grew up in a town that was almost 100% Italian, and my school was mostly comprised of people whose parents, like mine, came straight off the boat onto Ellis Island. I never met anyone Jewish until I went to college. My roommate and all her friends were from Miami and had all gone to a private Jewish high school together. We became fast friends and remain close to this day. I don’t refer to them as my Jewish friends; I refer to them as my college friends, and that is the only distinction between them and anyone else I call a friend.
Charlie Sheen (who I deplore for reasons beyond this) did bring up an interesting point, though. His gaffe was that he referred to his show’s producer by his largely unknown Hebrew name in an angry rant. But if someone refers to Charlie as Carlos Estevez (his largely unknown given name), does that make them anti-Latino?
Oh Sister. The only time anyone openly disliked me before getting to know me was the first day in a college class. The teacher was calling out our names and got to mine. My dad is Serbian and my last name ends in “vic”. I was sitting next to a Muslim girl who looked at me, scoffed and moved to a different seat. Like I was Milosevic’s daughter or something. I had been ready to exchange emails with her to be my class buddy. Oh well.
My parents raised me as an atheist and my dad fled communist Yugoslavia. When he came here in the 60s he barely spoke English and the black men he worked with teased him mercilessly. I guess everyone needs someone to pick on. Anyhow, my dad has always harbored resentment towards blacks. Growing up, I made it my mission to convince him otherwise but it’s a lost cause.
All of these idiots are a lost cause. Hopefully one day we can respect and celebrate other cultures/traditions without making it an issue about our differences but instead our parallels.
The Believer is a fantastic film, I wish more people knew about it.
Galliano’s remarks were definitely anti-Semitic, no questions asked. Like you said, though, his social views have nothing to do with how much I love the clothes he designs. As well, he does sound a bit drunk, though intoxication often brings out people’s true feelings.
However I don’t quite agree with you when you said, “The fact that you distinguish some people as Jews — unless they are orthodox Jews whose lifestyle is defined by religion — then you have a problem.”
If I were to say, “my high school had Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur off because 70% of the school was Jewish,” that doesn’t make me anti-Semitic, it just means I’m pointing out a fact. I think, it depends on why and the context around distinguishing someone as a Jew.
Lara whether you believe it or not, in my life I’ve had people say things to me to the effect of “I was afraid of black people before I met you” or “I really didn’t like black people and then when I met you, I realized this was silly”. While I of course feel slight offense to the nature of this message, I find it harder and harder to get my panties in a wad as I grow more mature. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar and if someone has managed to put their prejudice aside, that’s always good thing in my book. I try to believe no one’s a lost cause. Either way, he raised a wonderful daughter, so he can’t be all that bad 😉
In the next life, I will never come back or if I do I will choose to be:
-a flower,
-or a jaguar,
-a Cougar (the animal )
-a bird
but in no way a human being!
I know self hate. I remeber a French humorist saying on tv once that “we all have our arab” meaning somebody you hate, the scapegoat.
Look at this video, Guerlain talks about blacks, he says “he worked hard (like a ….) to make a perfume”, adding that he doesn’t know if ….worked that much”.
This was last year:
I’m the other E (from the UK) and I’m not asking for any explanations Sister W as this is your blog – and these are comments – not a forum.
Some forms of discrimination are so deep-seated as to be almost casual or unthinking. Doesn’t make it right – but then getting the hatred-o-meter out doesn’t help either.
Who knew Galliano could be such a dick? He may claim to have witness testimony that the events at La Perle didn’t happen, but the fact he’s been caught on video saying he loves Hitler while mouthing off about eugenically cleansing ugly people with gas surely spells the end of his illustrious career at Dior.
I don’t know what the problem with the word insidious is BTW. If we use the example given as an err.. example, can you imagine a critic saying that an actress didn’t try to mask her blackness? But the idea that Jewishness is a stigma is heavily implied. It’s insidious because it attempts to slip a vile idea in ‘under the radar’ as it were. ‘In a subtle way but with harmful effects’ as the OED has it. I’m sure there are insidious ways of insulting every race and creed imaginable, but all SW was saying is that people who have issues with race might tend to express their bigotry against Jews in this particular way. She didn’t say it was worse than hating blacks – that’s not what insidious means – she said it was done differently, that’s all. No ‘hatred-o-meter’ needed. Just a dictionary.
I am so ashamed that people still dont know any better than to be ignorant. Having said that, I had never spent one minute thinking about this. Because I only see people for their actions, not what nationality or race they are.
Somehow I thought there would be some logical attempted explanation of why people are anti-Semites. Not just “because”.
ugh. I am so sorry for anyone/everyone affected.
Its hard being a Jew whether you’re an atheist or not…
In the UK, its somewhat kind of cool to hate Israelis and Jews. People walking around with Keffiyeh printed scarves but not truly understanding what it stands for or what it is implying.
I often wonder if the world will ever see a 2nd holocaust. Galliano should remember that homosexuals were “f******g gassed” too.
I agree with you Layers and Swathes on the homosexual note. I thought to myself “does Galliano know, Hitler would have thrown him in the camps quicker than you could say ‘dress maker'”. But I have to ask? How do you know these individuals don’t know what a Keffiyeh mean? LAyers and Swathes I hope we can politely argue this but you do realize one can disagree with the actions of Israel without hating Jews or Israelis. I am often horrified by the Middle East conflict as I am horrified by my own country when we have done wrong.
I first have to say, that I completely agree with you; any form of dividing people into “us” and “them” is ignorant and unjust. I will, however, agree to disagree with the point, that it’s worse to hate jewish people rather than another ethnic minority. It’s basically wrong to have prejudices against any types of people – as there are so complex and have many sides to each individual.
This is one thing, I think you have to remember Sister Wolf – you say that if you admire some of Hitler’s qualities it is the same as being antisemitic – how come? I find it odd, that you can so quickly pass judgement towards others, when you lead such an admireable campaign towards people not judging each other too quickly.
I have not seen the John Galliano interview, so please forgive me, if you mean that this is statement is only towards John Galliano, who might admire the wrong qualities in Hitler. If not, however, please do explain to me how one becomes judgemental, simply by admiring certain (insane, you could say in this case) people’s qualities. Hitler was insane, yes and he did horrible things that good people did not deserve, but it cannot be said that he only did cruel things in his life. My personal opinion is that, even though he might have brought Germany out of financially unstable times, his cruel-doings (nothing seems to be strong enough to describe what he set in motion and ultimately, made people suffer through) overshadows this and I do not find much to be admired in him.
People are racist! I met a lot of racists in my life. I think it is sad. I also worked for racist people and I can not tell you how much this changed me! This is one of the reason I am very depressed today, it is still there and the words are still printed in my brain.
I heard this during my lifetime
-HR talking about me “we could have kept her as an employee but she is too ethnic” I was a receptionist, the company was company owned by jewish people but the person who said that was asian.
they used to have a blond girl before me and she moved to work in the office while I use to hold a master degree and worked at the reception. she trained me for her job, I found her super nice. Most girls that were at the reception before the blond girl didn’t last long. Me, I lasted longer until they terminated the contract for the reason you know.
-during a face to face interview for a job “where are you from?” you are not arab are you?” arab women are not tall like you, they are usually short….”
-during an interview on the phone the man who I was talking to seemed interested in me, then when I said my name and spelled it, his voice changed! and said “no, sorry”
-my own sister used to say that I was the darker of the family and called me black or indian while I am white in color, I am not white in origin and nor she is. I am fine with my background, but sister used to say those things.
what I heard about others and witnessed it, that doesn’t mean it didn’t affect me to the core. One day a friend of mine was looking for a job, then she went for an interview but they sent her to another office with another person. so she had to cross the area walking to go see the other interviewer, so the first person called the other one to let her know somebody is coming for the job. The desk door was not closed and it was glass, so the lady was talking on the phone and my friend heard everyhting she said “we can not take her, are you crazy to send her here, she is an arab, I don’t want her, or my god, she is an arab”
then my friend knocked on the door, the lady said okay smiling and added ‘I am sorry the position is taked”
my friend was walking fast and crying… while going home.
my brother wanted to date a girl and the mom said to my brother “hey you $%% don’t you bother my daughter”.
With respect “In the UK, its somewhat kind of cool to hate Israelis and Jews.” – umm no. There ARE people in the UK who hate anyone outside of their ‘norm’ – true – but I don’t think you could describe hate as ‘cool’ or as a given here.
Agree with every word, right down to “Me, I’m an atheist but I’m a Jew because my parents and their parents were Jews.”
It never occurs to me to think of anyone’s religion. I never look at someone and think, “Jew,” “Lutheran,” or anything else. I find it bizarre that other people always have it on their minds.
when she meant cool is the attitude with the tee-shirts, I think
Stupidity is enough of a reason to be revolted by Galliano. It was pure bile and that is enough for me to go cold. I’d like to say it is such a shame and a loss for the fashion industry blah blah but I wouldn’t mean it. He’s dead to me.
I’m over people picking on people or talking to people and say ‘you f*&^ing’ anything. Especially when drunk, vile and boring.
I’m reading “The Finkler Question”, a Man-Booker prize winner which is all about Jews but not in a good way. It’s quite annoying but for some reason I’m determined to get through it. But reading it has made me hyper aware of any thing related to being Jewish (which I am). Watching the Oscars last night I felt like almost every non-actor winner was Jewish, but again, that’s because I’ve been hyperfocused… then then Charlie Sheen rant and accusation — to which I say… he might’ve said things that touched on anti-semitism…but he’s got a lot more problems than that.
Then came the title of your post and thought…wow, it’s everywhere : )
Everyone has their prejudices. I fall into a bunch of categories & maybe I even fit a few stereotypes in some people’s opinion. I guess it sort of sucks, but I’m not going to get upset about it. It’s actually nice to know up front if someone is a big idiot. It saves me a lot of time. 🙂
You had me until this:
Hating Jews is like hating blacks but more insidious: It’s just ignorance and the need to feel superior.
In what way more insidious???
Quoting Pulp Fiction here: ENGLISH, MOTHERFUCKER! DO YOU SPEAK IT?
Dave tried to help and I thank him. I will try again.
“insidious” means: stealthy, subtle, surreptitious, working or spreading in a hidden and usually injurious way.
Okay? To recap, it doesn’t mean “worse.”
And all racism is based on ignorance and stupidity.
Jomama – I’m reading “Anti Semite and Jew” by Sartre which has been in my bookcase forever. It was all good until the very end, when he stunned me with the exhortation that the Jew should accept his victimhood and otherness in order to be “authentic.”
Ann – YES, if you call Charlie SHeen “Carlos” in order to shame him, it IS anti-Latino. Intention is everything in this case. Sheen’s “gaffe” was deliberate.
Chelsea Rae. Duh. If you observe that Jews observing a Jewish holy day are Jewish, yep, you are stating a fact. Like if I say that the population of Uganda is largely Black, duh, it’s a statement of fact. But if I say, my Black postman just delivered the mail, it suggests a problem.
Kitty – Hitler loved dogs and Wagner. Satisfied?
NOW i have seen evidence that he said something racist or anti-semitic!
You are right Sister Wolf, we cannot cure stupidity. I have had to learn that the hard way after much time and energy was spent trying to talk some reason into a brain that is not capable of reasoning.
Also, I think you could perfectly argue that hate towards Jews can be more insidious than hate towards blacks, that does not imply that they are not both the product of utter ignorance and stupidity. What’s the problem here?
@ Kitty: yes, she was referring to the fact that Galliano said “I LOVE HITLER” before moving on to worse. It is not an issue of passing judgement here. If he openly says he loves someone who is known by the entire planet as the leader of something so terrible as the holocaust, he is barely using such statement to allude to his love of Wagner. I find the use of the word “overshadow” quite inadequate when comparing such two things.
@Aja You’re right, people aren’t lost causes… I just know that when I meet someone with a racist mindset, I’d rather not waste my time arguing with them anymore, like you don’t get so upset as you get older.
I tried so hard with my dad, and he’s never cruel or rude to anyone, but I know how he thinks. It’s devastating that people can be so ignorant as to generalize an entire group/race/gender/religion negatively. I think I get embarrassment transfer and shame more than anything with my dad.
Sister, I am super upset about this whole thing. I’m not sure why because I usually ignore things of this nature and am pretty used to it. I totally agree with your statement that most people hate Jews. I don’t give a shit if Galliano hates Jews and loves Hitler, (who would have gassed HIM along with my forefathers btw) I’m just disappointed to see that he has no self control with his disgusting hate speech in public.
I grew up in Orange County… Huntington Beach to be exact, where I was the only Jew I knew. I didn’t have ONE Jewish friend so I became embarrassed about the fact that my family (father’s side) was Jewish. If people asked, and they did, I’d tell them something like,”Oh I think my Fathers mom was Jewish so he’s kind of Jewish but we’re really not religious.” I thought being Jewish was something to hide and be ashamed of. I didn’t know why because the part about not being religious was true. I knew nearly nothing about the religion so I didn’t feel the need or have the knowledge to defend it.
I read your quoted script and it really struck a nerve. I started balling (I’ve since calmed down) and I think it’s because it’s so true. Jews are such a hated people and it’s been historically so. Jews were kicked out of everywhere they settled and were nomads for years and years. But WHY?? That’s something I’ll never understand. When I hear hateful speech from foreign leaders about Jews being the enemy it makes me so sad. How can a religion with SO few people be the target of so much hate!!??
It’s just all too sad Sister.
SIDE NOTE: The problem with Charley Sheen Calling Chuck Lavine “Hyam” is that it is NOT in fact his real name. It would be like calling a man of Hispanic descent “Jose” when his name is really Joe.
Sammy Davis Jr was black, Jewish and ugly.
And the most talented human being ever to walk the earth (as far as I’m concerned).
Black, green, whatever.
It doesn’t make a difference to the sheep!
Lara, if it makes you feel any better, my Mum grew up black and poor in Alabama in the 50’s. To say that through out my life, she has had slight annoyance with white people would be a grand understatement. But I feel her mellowing out more and more within her years. It’s taken her a while to realize the world isn’t as shitty a place as it was in her childhood. And I’m so proud of her for being able to look forward and not let her up bringing keep her from having an open mind and heart.
Aja – I get equally as irritated when I see someone wearing a useless red Kabballah string around their wrist as much as I do a Keffiyeh scarf. What I meant is that this generation does a lot of “armchair activism” where they think that by wearing something, its representing a view which is often vacuous as they don’t fully understand what it represents. There was a whole hipster movement here in the UK where the Keffiyeh scarf became a fashion staple. I highly doubt the majority even understood what it was affiliated with.
Of course people can be against the decisions made by the Jewish people and the Israeli government without hating Jews and Israelis but choosing to wear something like a Keffiyeh – if truly you know what it means – is making one helluva statement.
There is abig difference between jews and zionists. what do you think of this SW? zionism is purely political.
Layers&Swathes, I don’t think decisions made by the Israeli government represent all Jewish people. If so, that’s some blind patriotism right there.
Reading about all this hatred and the unspeakable things we do to our fellow human beings makes me extremely sad and horrified.
I had many issues with my parents but they never, ever had any racist views/attitude. I married a brown guy of a very mixed background (black, white + South American Indian) – they did not say a word about his colour or race. In Poland you learn about Auschwitz in school, but I naively thought that anti-semitism died with Hitler – until my classmate’s father started to spew some nonsense about “Elders of Sion” and their world-wide conspiracy. Later in life I was asked by a “concerned” person “do I know that my fiance (eventually second husband) is Jewish?”. He wasn’t, but I replied “well, you know, the heart doesn’t chose that way”, which shut her up. I was told by a drunk neighbour in Toronto to go back to my country – to which I said “this is my country”. I intervened in an altercation between black neighbour and an Arab neighbour. The black was yelling at the Arab “you just descended from a camel!”. My Jewish atheist coworker said that she doesn’t want her son to marry a non-Jewish girl, it would be “diluting of blood”. A Polish MP said in public that election of Obama means “the end of a white man era”; I’m deeply ashamed that my country elects such morons to the Parliament. I’ve read somewhere that we are all “deep down” tribal and a stranger equals enemy, but I also see examples that we are overcoming the enemy approach and start seeing a “human being” instead, so I’m hopeful…
About Galliano – what a cunt. These pesky phones with their little cameras are everywhere – how’s that for the defamation charges.
Cricket9 one of my most loved boyfriends broke up with me upon quietly announcing that his parents would not be able to handle our relationship and the fact that I was not only a non Jew but was (gasp) black. What a shameful coward he was for dating someone he would never have the balls to defend to his family! But yeah, that sort of stuff stays with you, doesn’t it?
This feels like deja vu and since I’d already said my piece in previous posts, I’ll keep this short: I feel there has to be some kind of middle ground between The Alan Dershowitz 12-Step Chutzpah Program(tm) and JEWISH IS NOT AN ETHNICITY HOW DARE YOU MENTION IT.
In class, I sit in a table with a Korean girl who is Catholic, a Jewish girl, a Pakistani Muslim girl, and a Caucasian girl who’s last name is German. I am not any one of those nationalities. Prejudice, racism, sexism and religious discrimination is not inborn. It is taught to us, through our parents and friends and the neighbor down the street, to the nasty jokes and dirty looks and insults passed to one another. This sort of hate is meaningless, and is completely and utterly stupid.
Our group is pretty mellow, usually I’m the one being insensitive and talking about potentially controversial topics. I don’t want to offend anyone, but I just want to know others’ opinions. But most of the time we talk about Dora the Explorer and Justin Bieber’s hair and crushes.