No one is antisemitic if you ask them. Not at all!
Certainly not John Galliano, even though you can hear him admiring Hitler in this video. Not Charlie Sheen and not Mel Gibson. These guys were just drunk or stoned and plus, some of their best friends are Jews.
Here is my feeling: Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic. It is frustrating to argue this point. I tried in another post, when a film reviewer praised an actress for not “trying to mask her Jewishness.” Everyone claimed to be bewildered by the premise that this is clearly antisemitic.
If you tell me about your Jewish friends, you are antisemitic, to my ears. The fact that you distinguish some people as Jews – unless they are orthodox Jews whose lifestyle is defined by religion – then you have a problem.
Me, I’m an atheist but I’m a Jew because my parents and their parents were Jews. The world will always define me as different because the world is nuts. Why the world is nuts about Jews, I don’t know. I’ve been reading about it but I’m not a historian. I don’t need to be a historian to know that most of the world hates Jews.
That’s their problem, though, I’m not going to boycott Galliano because he’s antisemitic. I love his designs and I don’t care about his personal problems. Hating Jews is like hating blacks but more insidious: It’s just ignorance and the need to feel superior. It’s stupid, but evidently we can’t cure stupidity.
Last night I watched a great movie called “The Believer” which caused such an uproar when it was previewed to Jewish leaders that it was released under the radar and disappeared quickly. It’s the true story of a self-hating Jewish student in New York who becomes a neo-Nazi.
Ryan Gosling is the anti-hero. His speech to a group of would-be fascists is so maniacal that it has stayed with me over the years. Each time I see the movie and hear the speech, I laugh out loud at its audacity and absurdity – and because its true. Here it is, copied from the script:
DANNY
How many of you think of yourselves
as anti-Semites?
(All the hands go up.)
Good. Actually, the term is a bit
imprecise since technically Jews are
only one of the Semitic peoples....
In fact, Arabs are Semites, as are
the Eritreans, the Ethiopians, and so
on.... But for our purposes an anti-
Semite is someone who hates or is
against Jews.... Now, why do we hate
them?
He looks around. The room is silent.
DANNY
Let me put it another way. Do we hate
them because they push their way in
where they don't belong? Or because
they're clannish and keep to themselves?
Murmurs of "Yeah. Both." But some are confused by this.
DANNY
...Because they're tight with money,
or because they flash it around?
Because they're Bolsheviks or because
they're capitalists? Because they
have the highest IQs, or because they
have the most active sex lives?
The audience, confused...
DANNY
Do you want to know the real reason
we hate them?...
DANNY
...Because we hate them.
(as people exchange
puzzled looks)
Because they exist. Because it is an
axiom of civilization that just as
man longs for woman, loves his
children and fears death, he hates
the Jews.
(smiles)
There is no reason. If there were,
some smart-ass kike would give us an
argument, try to prove we were wrong.
And of course that would only make us
hate them more. In fact we have all
the reasons we need in three simple
letters: J-E-W. Jew. Say it a million
times. It is the only word that never
loses its meaning: Jew Jew Jew Jew
Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew Jew....
February – Nope, I bet that’s not all you have to say. Sorry about the economic success of many jews. Console yourself with the knowledge that I have no money, alright?
Aja – For the record, I don’t go around thinking “Shit, the world will never think I’m any good because I’m a Jew.” I don’t like religion, I don’t think of Jewishness much. I sometimes laugh when I encounter antisemitism because it’s so absurd.
I guess I’m too dumb to be a racist.
The way I see it, some people you like, some people you don’t.
Simple as that.
Races, religion, ethnic background, nothing to do with it.
Some people are good to know, some aren’t.
Whole lot of words and a whole lot of hate being thrown around. Seems like a whole lot of wasted energy.
Save it for something more important.
Galliano is scheduled to enter rehab immediately. Don’t you just love it when celebrities do that following a documented racist rant? Like everyone’s going to assume that hateful speech stems solely from tying one on?!
Candy, why a comment about someone’s accent would be racist? It’s about your pronunciation, not race. In the past I had to find people for a customer service positions, and one of the conditions was “no strong accents”. Why? Because, apparently, people in some US states don’t understand strong accents, and the company thought it’s not a good situation when your customers don’t understand people who are providing the service. I have an accent in English, Spanish and French, will always have it, as long as people can actually understand me, it’s the last of my worries. Is a remark “you have such a blue eyes” racist? Let’s keep it in some perspective…
BTW, the HR people you describe are deplorable – I don’t know where this kind of behaviour takes place, but it’s illegal in US and in Canada.
Your comment about grief surprised me; Klara is an obvious troll and an obnoxious idiot, what grief has to do with anything?
SW, I was referring to you when I talked about grief but I understood that this post, has nothing to do with your grief. I follow your blog and I know when you grief and when you talk about fashion and when you talk about other subjects like this one. I read you because you are intelligent and can seperate your grief when talking about a subject you want to talk about. If that make sense (english is not my first language)
I guess, Klara was referring to others posts not this one. I said she doesn’t understand your grief because I sense your anger sometimes but not on this subject.
hope you understand what I mean.
Criket, unfortunately this happened in Canada.
I think hatred towards Jews is deeply embedded in the subconscious of anyone that has been indoctrinated in the Christian (particularly the Catholic – Mel Gibson anyone?) faith and also Christian societies – Galliano is Spanish is he not? Even societies that see themselves as secular such as the French have inherited it. It’s passed down through generations and generations and is based I think on peoples interpretation of the New Testament – told to us from a young age in the form of Bible stories etc etc. It taps into something primal so doesn’t just affect those that consider themselves religious.
I agree with Sisterwolf in its insidiousness because it’s subtle expression plays out beneath the awareness of people’s conscious mind.
Forgive me if this all seems too esoteric but it’s almost like the Jewish people embody for Christians some type of archetypal enemy and become the scapegoat and target for villification. This underlying current of anti-semiticism is a burden on the Jewish group mind even if it’s not at a conscious level. It is not something that most people would be aware of or even admit to but regardless I still think it’s easily perceivable in throw away comments, compliments, ‘jokes’ and the like.
I’m sure there were lots of Germans particularly the educated and intellectuals before Hitler’s time that would never have considered themselves anti-semite but all it took was the ‘right conditions’ and for the embedded hatreds to come out. Right conditions being mass rallys that everyone were forced to go to that created a group mind that tapped into existing prejudices that people were not even aware they had.
It’s interesting that these tirades against Jews come out when people are intoxicated. The alchohol is not an excuse at all, all it does is allow them to express what they really think, something that the gate of the personality would never allow when they have conscious control of it. Opinions that they would never own in polite company – but there they are – not so far from the surface.
It’s the responsibility of each and everyone of us to dig deep into our own subconscious, to be on guard against prejudices – most especially we that don’t consider ourselves to have them. We have to recognise any thought or emotion that filters to the surface – sieze it, examine it and destroy it because be sure that they are there in the group mind of the societies we are brought up in and therefore in our own – deeply embedded as fears, victimhood AND envy (‘the Jews control all the money in world through Bank ownership, look at the Rothschilds’ – ‘it’s impossible to work in the media unless you’re Jewish’ – ‘they only look after their own’, ‘I wish I was Jewish, they support each other and have such a network’ – I’ve actually heard these comments casually bandied about) that could one day be triggered and manipulated towards doing horrible crimes against humanity.
Sisterwolf – I find your posts and comments sections an amazing source of thoughtful discussion of such a varied range of topics, fun and serious. I’ve only ever commented once – some inanity. I’m no writer so forgive me for grammatical errors and my clumsy expression and thankyou for providing such an interesting forum.
Tanya – It’s like a little kid taking a Time Out when they’ve been naughty.
Candy – That’s okay. “Klara” is probably someone with a longstanding grudge against me. Carry on.
Homma – Thanks for taking the time for your eloquent comment. I hope we hear more from you!
Homma – would it be okay if I stood against your Catholicism v Jewish view, not to be an apologist but to assure you that being raised as Catholic has nothing to do with cultural racism of any group. I was brought up in a Judeo-Christian appreciation club (ref family & influences, in my case the Catholic church, our church was twinned with a synagogue as part of Vatican II to promote healing & understanding – beacuse you are right there was a wrong to address), my sister has married a Muslim. I have a sister who is a paranoid schizophrenic, my extended family is a mix of married, divorced, living together, atheist, undecided, Christian, Jewish and Islamic, straight, gay and lesbian. One of my best friends is Hindu and I’m sure most of my atheist friends love Buddhism. The worst thing for me is some of my family vote Tory! I am sure you are right about pockets of Christians but I hope that you understand I’m trying to say not everyone is like that and we have to be louder than the rest to change perceptions.
I just don’t want Mel Gibson nor Galliano to be an embodiment of anything. They do not represent anything other than themselves. The rest of your comments I completely agree with and I’m not disagreeing with your opening paragraph – it is merely that collectives are created by others we are all individuals and as you say are responsible for our views.
I would be a fecking saint if I had never thought or said anything wrong based on prejudice because we learn words and intentions from those around us, especially when one is younger and more immature. But we can dig deeper than pathetic generalisations. And we can challenge the stupidity when we are faced with it.
What has worried me more which is why I’ve come back to this post, is that some people are trying to blame the person(s) who filmed his tirade suggesting that they put him up to it or capitalising on his notoriety.
We have no idea why they filmed him, my guess would be because he’d been rude to then before and they decided to get him, and rightly so. I’m sorry but this exposure is a service to us all, a chance to assess ourselves and take stock of those who are apologists or attempt to defend him. And those who attack on any level the people who filmed his rant.
SW kindly tweeted the definition of anti-Semitism and her use of the word insidious is reminder of how vigilant we have to be not to tolerate it on any level.
Make Do – That Franca Sozanni quote in IT Vogue, blaming “parvenus,” was astounding. Fire her, too. What an idiot!
I read that too about the editor of IT Vogue saying Galliano was provoked. Well actually Lara brought it to my attention first. But I guess all I can say is maybe she read an early report (because there were a lot of them flying around) which said nothing of his actual actions and just that he called the people “ugly”, which I see no crime in, especially if they’re bothering you. How wrong, I was!
“…thirty pieces of silver.” Sozanni is CRAZY stupid.
I think Make Do Style may have misunderstood me. Just disregard my twits-on-cell-phones bit. My dislike of certain technological advances is neither here no there. It’s related more to a fear of shitting myself in public and having it posted on youtube. Or maybe I’m really a neo-Nazi and resent giggling minorities with their cell phones of truth and justice. I’ll be in my lair swiffering.
@Homma: Interesting, your emphasis on collective consciousness and accountability. (Are you by any chance a German national? Just getting a bit of – dammit, that really long term for coming to terms with the past, can’t remember.)
Personally I DON’T believe that any culture is a personality writ large, Judeo-Christian or not.
Forget what I just posted. Realized everything isn’t always about me. Der.
I’m sorry I bothered to post anything here. Something is very wrong with you. You intiate a conversation about anti-semitism (and only anti-semitism) by seemingly searching for some understanding of ‘why.’I guess any actual insight into why it might exist today was not part of your plan. So, no.. you’re right.. everyone is jealous of Jewish intelligence, success and all around outstandingness. Actual social conditions are just anti-semitic dribble meant to mask goy jealousy of the choosen people. Happy now?
Muslims hate the US because our freedoms, and EVERYONE hates the Jews because they’re just all around PERFECT. Is that the answer you prefer?
Calm down, February and March back to your previous, slightly more analytical attempt at an honest contribution. Your sarcasm here is unwarranted, unfair and over-the-top.. especially based on what Sister has actually written.
Before anyone accuses you of self-revealed antisemitism I would venture to guess that you get pissed off at EVERYBODY quickly.
Actually, Sister Wolf already accused me of being antisemitic in a most INSIDIOUS way. Anyway, since I’m not on Sister Wolf’s Victims of Discrimination pyramid, I’ll just March right back to the Goyim corner and allow the Number One victims of discrimination carry on their lamenting.
Danno – hahaha nope it isn’t about you.
February – oh just fuck off, seriously I cannot be bothered to use proper words on such a facile stupid self centred moron who is aggressive for no reason.
Let us agree to celebrate the hard-fought social progress that we have achieved, now that we can ignore religious, racial and sexual differences, and can enjoy loathing and detesting each other for purely personal, individual and trivial reasons.
Oh, Internet, you’ve brought us so many blessings!
February, you talk like CNN or Fox news! Muslims are not jealous of the Freedoms because if you know the muslim faith you would see that the freedoms don’t matter, there are other values. It has to do with the US foreign policy which is opressing people abroad such as giving weapons to Saddam and going to war with Iraq after that. I can go on and on. American are the nicest people I met, but the foreign policy of the US sucks!!!!
-putting japanese people in camps,
-Gitmo,
-Vietnam war
-invadidn Iraq who had no WMD…
but this is another debate not related to the subject here.
Make Do — I completely agree with your comments that not all Christians are of this opinion and that a lot of work has been and is being done in breaking down ideas of this kind. I salute people from all religious groups that work in this way and I think that out of anyone those active in liberal church groups are often working hardest to educate, build bridges, right wrongs and fight against prejudice and oppression.
Tartantreacly – I understand many people will have a problem with the very premise that my opinion is based on – which is the idea of collective consciousness and group minds. Also, I would like to think that from my comments it’s impossible to discern my nationality, religious or cultural upbringing. You may be surprised if you knew my heritage, I don’t think it’s relevant other than its complexity has probably inspired my desire to understand and explore the questions raised by this post.
—
I’m a firm believer that given the right circumstances all of us are capable of horrors that we would never have believed we were capable of AND adversely we are all capable of heroism that we never believed was possible. Ordinary people put themselves at extraordinary risk to save or help others. They fight against injustice and prejudices that they themselves have never been subject to and have no ‘personal’ reason to fight except their love for their fellow man and hatred of injustice, this is understood.
But since this post is specifically about anti-Semitism, why it exists and its insidiousness I’m basically just going to offer my opinion without apology.
I guess what I was trying to get across (as I said above I understand people may have a problem with the premise of my opinion – that I am a firm believer in the collective unconscious, group minds and that the fundamentally gregarious nature of man is a huge influence on our actions) is, that for centuries, folkloric interpretations of the New Testament have disseminated the idea that the ‘Jews killed Jesus’ – ever heard it couched this way before? I certainly have. On a deep level of the subconscious (and I truly mean deeply beneath the level of our awareness and good intentions) mind this statement taps into all sort of symbolic and primal feelings about saviours, God and most importantly our own possibility for redemption. The Jew’s ‘murder’ of and in some ways more importantly rejection of a redeemer, a son of God and their ‘arrogance’ in continuing in the assumption of the role as the Chosen People. I personally think this is why people hate Jews without even knowing it.
I think the insidiousness of this hatred lies precisely in the fact that it isn’t based on skin colour or socio economic conditions or a question of general cultural integration. Religion, crosses all continents, colours and socio economic conditions. Jews have been hounded from country to country, pushed out and have lived in fear of pogroms for centuries. Deep within the Jewish psyche is the feeling that there is nowhere a Jew can truly call or feel at home – even Israel – without fear of being pushed out or murdered one day even if one is not religious at all or really identifies with being Jewish. This is centuries and centuries of fear that is passed down unconsciously through the generations and for good reason. Where can Jewish people really feel safe? Where? LA? Melbourne? New York? Mexico? Yes, there are communities of Jewish people where you can feel safe and tolerated but for how long and where to go when the welcome is outstayed? Because history shows us that apparently the Jews always outstay their welcome.
The question of anti-Semitism is not just about current conditions; it is also about the future. History has shown that tolerance of the Jews is conditional and temporary no matter how well culturally integrated they are, for example Jews were in the south of Spain peacefully and in perfect symbiosis with other religions for centuries before Queen Isabella drove them out.
The comments of Galliano and those that excuse his behaviour are incredibly scary because – be sure – they are just the very small tip of a monumental iceberg of unspoken hatred.
February – Awesome. It didn’t take much to get to your real feelings about Jews.
Danno – Nuts, right???
Homma -Thank you again. You have nailed it, far as I’m concerned. (But alas, someone will want to pipe up again about “Jews have it good! blablabla.)
I watched the movie yesterday via YT. It was a very good movie.
I reject all religions. So stupid and unproductive.
Candy- Oh? You mean its completely ignorant to make such simplistic and ridiculous claims about the roots of hatred? Do you suggest that usually there are socio-economic cause of hatred, including religious and racial discrimination? Well then Candy, I couldn’t agree more. And I’m glad you agree with the point I’ve making to Sister Wolf.
Sister Wolf- You’re ridiculous. First of all, I’ve made comments about YOU. You are the one that started insidiously calling me an anti-semite when I pointed out that Jews are the most successful minority in America after women. And therefore, its absurd to claim some sort of dangerous undercurrent of anti-semitism is going to take over. And I pointed out that Jews have a very high political represenation in the US, and it so happens, that as a group, Jews are in fact rich. These are facts, feel free to look them up.
Secondly, I was under the impression that I wrote that I believe that Jews, having successfully overcome the effects of discrimination, should join or rejoin other minorities in combatting all forms of discrimination.
However, you clearly reacted in such a retarded way (oh, sorry Jews are rich.. it didnt take much to get to your REEEEAL feelings about Jews) because you were sooo put out that I suggested that Jews were not eternal, holy or special victims.
Get a grip you idiot. You’re pointing to Galiano, Charlie Sheen and Mel Gibson as signs of the great destruction being wrought by anti-semitism. Black Americans have the highest unemployment rate in the country. Arizona legalized police harassment of Latinos. Gay men and women can’t marry because the straight majority won’t let them. And the majority of American people favor Muslims carrying around special ID cards. (Not to mention all the politicians that are allowed to spew anti-Islamic filth.)
Might I recommend a book called “The Coming of the Third Reich.” The author has the audacity to write about the social, political and economic conditions in Germany that lead to the rise of the Nazis. What an anti-semite he is. Everyone knows there’s no possible reason for anti-semitism…
February – No you may not recommend The Coming of the third Reich. Unless you are going to identify your own ethnicity, I can’t continue this dialogue. Clearly, you feel affronted by those rich uppity Jews who rule the US. (BTW, 8% of the US congress is Jewish)
Jews HAVE helped other minorities and participated in the civil rights marches of the 60s as you must know. But your resentment of Jews will discount this and all other efforts. Jew hating was around long before The Third Reich. Shakespeare himself was antisemitic!
Your resentment of Jewish “success” is exactly what I meant by insidious. Thank you for being such a good example of resentment and the propagation of myths about Jewish “power.”
ps If you’re going to be so passionate about minorities, you might want to stop calling me retarded. I have an autistic kid and we prefer other language.
Sister Wolf- You don’t want anyone to even be aware of the fact that anyone is Jewish unless they’re Hasidic, yet you think my ethnicity is so very relevant? How odd.
I don’t feel ‘affronted’ by ‘rich uppity Jews,’ I simply feel confused and mildly amused when some people insist that Jews are a underpresented or endangered minority today. Like you did.
And, you might have noticed that I used the word “rejoin” when I wrote about Jews joining with other minorities in civil righs issues.
Anyway, I’ll have to decline your condition of revealing my ‘ethnicity’ in order to continue this very enlightening conversation with you. You’re a dime a dozen. There are dozens of you on Fox. Hundreds of you preaching hatred and filth and unconditional support of Israel (lest you reveal you ‘anti-semitism’) in Evangelical churches across the US. And hundreds of thousands rationalizing dropping white phosphorous on Palestinians.
I have no “resentment of Jewish success,” as I not only make my living off of successful Jews, but my maternal grandfather happens to be one as well. What I do resent is the fact that many people seem unable to actually discuss anti-semitism or Israel with calling people ‘anti-semites’ or suggesting that everything that’s said must stem from ‘resentment of Jewish success’ or some irrational hatred of Jews.
I wish your child the best.
February – It seems cowardly to blast away at jews and enumerate injustices by other minorities without identifying your frame of reference.
I am not preaching filth and hatred but your feelings about Palestinians and Israel explain your positions.
Good for you, making a “living off of successful Jews!” Der Fuhrer has a Jewish granparent as well, btw.
“I wish your child the best” ?! God, what a condescending cuntish way to sign off. A coward AND a cunt…what a bargain, as we jews like to say.
Homma – perfectly put.
“Anyone who separates people into Jews and Everyone Else is antisemitic.”
Based on this definition, I know plenty of antisemetic Jews. Probably even some reading this.
http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2011/03/john_galliano_-_the_two_issues.html
^I’d have bought the premise of the article if they hadn’t tried to bring Tibet into the equation as a comparison- the Guardian did write extensively about the conflict when the flareups of 2008 happened.
Also, I find the idea that non-Israeli Jews are blamed for Israeli occupation policy more than a little strange- I’ve questioned it often enough myself (and I’ve questioned the policy followed by China in Tibet oftener than that), but surely questioning the actions of a state is not the same as racist criticism of its people? That idea is something that, forgive my saying so, doesn’t sit well with me at all.
also: it’s equally acceptable in many, many circles to couch anti-Arab (also Semites, are they not?) or anti-Muslim biases in criticism of their perceived misogyny, terrorism or the notion that Islam promotes it (witness the shitstorm over the proposed construction of a Muslim community centre a short distance from the site of what used to be the WTC towers in New York). Anti-Jewish sentiment is not the only kind of prejudice that gets cloaked in this fashion, and it’d be pushing it to say it was.
stop fighting please!
Dru, I was against the Muslim Center they were trying to build because of its location. I think after 911, Muslims should lay low.
February, I didn’t follow the conversation you had with SW, I just responded to the comment about Muslims. For me, the medias tell you that Muslims want to end the US freedoms but that is not true! They just don’t like the injustice some Muslim countries have endured with the US foreign policy. It would be good if the world has a meeting to discuss differences and also to stop ingerence in other countries policies, both ways.
Most countries you see revolting today have Islam in their policies. To have democracy, you have to seperate religion from politics. Most leaders such as Gadafhi insist on religion while they are not that religious and pretend they are good muslims who want the best for their people.
Look at this video, Ben Ali hidden treasures:
Hammo – thank you for more well written discourse. I do hope you knew I was agreeing with you but am proud of my socialist liberal upbringing and we rarely get good press!
I hope and pray the tolerance is not temporary but you are right to suggest Galliano and his apologists are the tip of the iceberg.
Sister Wolf – ignore February, how annoying that someone can appropriate a month of the year to vent such ugliness. Vile. What is it with people who bring other issues in to what was a post on Galliano and his anti Semitic rant.
sorry if I talked about politics Make do style, I know that’s not a good subject. Politics and religion discussions always end up in a bad way. I’d rather talk fashion and Art.
I wish I was Jewish.
Candy- it wasn’t on the site, it was a few blocks away and if I remember the particular sect that proposed it were Sufis- the Muslim equivalent of peace-loving hippies. And why should Muslims lie low, anyway? It’s been nearly a decade since 9/11, surely it’s too much to expect the innocent members of a community to keep paying the price of the terrorists’ guilt?
As for the protests in Egypt, Libya etc I thought it was about North Africa and the fact that the people are fed up with their dictatorships- not about the religion being followed. (but if Pakistan is the next country to revolt, I’ll eat my words)
I’m with Dru. I’m all for the Mosque. No one needs to lie low. We are Americans. We are a melting pot. We need to remember that. But more than anything we need tolerance. And acceptance and understanding. It’s the only way, people.
@Homma: What a terrific comment! I’m afraid I can’t be as thoughtful in my response as you were in yours, but here are my thoughts:
No, your nationality has no bearing on anything, but the focus of your attention did strike me as a little German in spirit, at least! (I hope you know what I mean by that. ;-D)
While I can’t judge the the impact that centuries of persecution have had on the Jewish psyche (if there is one), I am generally skeptical about arguments based on some kind of collective or cultural memory, especially when we’re talking macro-level, stretching for generations across continents. It’s all a little fuzzy and reductionist. That there is some kind of racial memetic hindbrain archiving and disseminating all those pogroms and Crusades and other instances of racially-motivate violence, all that hate, in a grand mystagogical clash of civilizations.
Even if there exists a collective consciousness/memory, it must be constantly evolving, shaped by co-existing and competing forces (what I’d meant when I said no culture is one personality writ large.) While it may be true (or at least arguable) that Jews have been persecuted and oppressed throughout history due to a dominant Christian mythology that cast the Jew as the Betrayer, is it also not possible that social, political and economic circumstances were the deciding factors? (I don’t know much about the pogroms – I confess to a poverty of knowledge here.)
Anyway, even though I’m generally more interested in institutional racism, this is a good discussion!
Dru and Aja – I’m all for the mosque in NYC. Every argument against it is absurd if not straight up racism.
liz – You could convert!
tartantreacly – It is a good discussion! It would be even better if everyone realized that history didn’t begin in WWII.
I think they can build a Mosque or Community centre somewhere else but not in that location. They should have called it “Multicultural Peace Center opened to any religion” including atheists and buddhist etc.. This way the concept of Peace is emphasized.
Religion is a personal thing.
I know Aja I am with you on the tolerance and peace issue but respect goes both ways that’s why I say lie low.
My husband is Muslim and he thinks the same about the Mosque that it should be built somewhere else. It is not racism, it’s just that we suffer a lot because of a few. We both think religion is personal. The more you talk about religion the more you end up being victimized nowadays, especially Islam.
I even think that the idea of the Mosque was not brought by muslims but somebody else, not by the Imam, to create turmoil.
@Sister Wolf: Weeelll, history might not have begun in WWII, but there are those who would argue that it begun in WWI! 😉
We each of us are myopic in different ways.
@Dru: People don’t hold the overseas Chinese answerable for the PRC’s policies because people don’t even hold the mainland Chinese answerable for the PRC’s policies. The CCP, after all, is the Big Bad slapping the brainwashed masses and then asking the brainwashed masses, “Why are you slapping yourselves?”
(That does not mean all those overseas Chinese students who mindlessly cheered on the Beijing Olympics torch relay – aka China’s Great Fascist March Through History – from the sidelines are innocent though…)
Way late here, but $0.02:
As a bisexual transgendered half-Jewish, part Romani, the rest whitebred non-neurotypical disabled unemployed weird looking person (as if any of that experience qualifies my thoughts or deeds):
all oppression is all oppression is all oppression.
Stating degrees of it is NOT helpful. Let’s not forget that seemingly inane or merely annoying measures taken against various groups under Hitler ended up culminating in a clusterfuck of destruction of lives and cultures of many different types. All oppression and hatred is insidious as fuck. I know what Sister meant at the beginning, insidious being that at first antisemitism may be written off as so ignorant as to be merely ridiculous or is easier to hide behind rhetoric at times, but let’s just not make these comparisons. Hate sucks across the board! (Even if we all indulge in it in small ways–all the more reason to recognize and call it out!)
Racists are just people who don’t feel special enough, so they are inventing an identity through denial of the legitimacy of another’s. Galliano’s ridiculous cultural appropriation in his outfits shines all the more now. And that Italian Vogue cunt going on about “pieces of silver” and “parvenu” proved how much of stereotyping is almost free-association/unconscious spillover. All this has done for me is show just how idiotic fashion people mostly are…something I always argued against before.
The most chilling thing of all was the look on JG’s face as he spewed his poison word jism: that’s the look of ‘i’m an idiot and i’m taking you down with me, world!”
Amen.
candy- I can see where you’re coming from, and I would have agreed with your point that the centre should have taken itself elsewhere- if it had been a reactionary place, or one that created controversy for the sake of it. But that’s not the case, and though you and I may disagree, the mere act of being Muslim and having a place of worship a short distance from Ground Zero isn’t disrespectful to anything, IMHO. The proposed place was a community centre which, as far as I could tell, was open to any faith- nothing scary there.
Respect does go both ways, but it’s still my feeling that anti-Islamic sentiment is actually anti-Semitism, v. 2.0. (of course, v. 1.0 is still alive and kicking, look at the events of the last week).
tartandtreacly- I did go to one of the Olympic torch relays- to protest, not to cheer it on. Honestly, it just makes me upset, more so because it seems so hopeless, the international community just can’t be bothered to pay attention. And there’s nothing we can do except take in the refugees and make a stink whenever a stink needs to be made (like in 2008).
Sister you got spam!